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- JUAN
- I'm an avid student with music and art. I'm currently in school majoring in music. I've developed a small firm wrapped around the vision of art and design. I'm deeply in love with a girl named Julie Bedsaul. I'm simple minded, but not to be mistaken for a simpleton. I'm an advocate for truth, whether it be current, historical, or pertain to a movement. I can't stand bandwagons, liars or exaggerators. Truth and logic is where it's at.
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Ouch!
I couldn't even get beyond the first video, and so didn't watch the rest...
Taking scripture out of context, taking McLaren out of context, and even expressing outright that they fail to understand what McLaren is saying...
...this of course doesn't prevent them from thinking that, whatever he might be saying, it is incorrect!
Not to mention they obviously haven't been reading their Bibles all the way through:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2023:37;&version=31;
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah%2066:9-14;&version=31;
Why is it that you don't like McLaren?
Pastor Steve,
First I want to share that God has been doing some profound things in my life.. he is waking me up in the dead of night and guilding me to his word.. I'm at the moment still wrestling through all these things, Keeping my eyes focused on Jesus..
But.
For starters....
McLaren endorses a man by the name of Ken Wilbur... Look him up.
Pastor Steve,
You speak from such boldness.
past the first video is McLaren himself in a interview.. I think you need to listen to them before you comment again....
thanks.
Hey Juan,
I did watch them all, was there something specific about the videos that you found problematic? If so I would be interested in discussing that with you. It seems people don't really want to engage with what is actually said, but I would like to do that with you if you are willing...
as to Wilber... what do you mean by endorse? It seems like McLaren is endorsing him for his works of philosophy. Do you find that problematic?
And as for names, do you know this one?
Norma McCorvey
I think you will find her an interesting story!
Pastor Steve,
I am wrestling through this... and what scripture tells me is in complete contradiction of what I've read in McLaren's books.
As far as endorsing Ken Wilbur (he is one among many)... I find a huge problem there.. We in any case are influenced by others, and with our walk with Jesus we need to be careful. McLaren is influenced by this man.. And if you looked him up you would find that he is a man that practices Buddhism among the many.
McLaren also refuses to proclaim how God feels about sexual immorality. In his case he separates homosexuality from the rest. I don't see it any different than any other we find in scripture.. it's all sin.. BUT, because McLaren refuses to proclaim the word of God and instead pleads the fifth in a liberal, social gospel way, through this failure to speak the truth he gives an open invitation to practice such things.. This tells me he isn't reading scripture and further more isn't aknowledging it altogether. Rather he wants to make it fit his liberal thoughts. McLaren is a revisionist, He likes to excuse scripture with paganism. He enjoys skewing the words of God and confusing new followers..
In all honestly I think you consumed McLaren right off the bat.. And I'm not going to debate with you about it.. I'm simply going to wrestle through my findings with scripture and prayer and share them. But ultimately writers like McLaren will not define my walk with God. and if I chose to pass on McLaren's strange theology I don't think that constitutes a reason why Jesus would be disappointed and cast me away.
McLaren is not a prophet.. A Prophet proclaims change in the authority of God.. A prophet never tells us we have to rethink God. When someone starts talking about a secret message of Jesus my spirit tells me to stay away.
2 Timothy 4:3 (New International Version)
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
*SIDE NOTE
Rob Bell heartily recommended Ken Wilber’s book, A Theory of Everything to his Velvet Elvis readers. He liked it so much that he advised his readers to “set aside three months” to read it. Ken Wilber is teaching rank, occult, New Age consciousness. If you take the time to research it's easy to find.... and it just keeps getting worse.
Hey Juan,
If you don't want to talk specifics, I understand (that can be time consuming), but it really puts us in a place where we can't really discuss anything of substance...
For example:
"BUT, because McLaren refuses to proclaim the word of God and instead pleads the fifth in a liberal, social gospel way, through this failure to speak the truth he gives an open invitation to practice such things.. This tells me he isn't reading scripture and further more isn't aknowledging it altogether. Rather he wants to make it fit his liberal thoughts. McLaren is a revisionist, He likes to excuse scripture with paganism. He enjoys skewing the words of God and confusing new followers.."
When you say this about McLaren, without showing me any quotes of McLaren's and explaining the context of those quotes in such a way that you can claim to actually understand the quote, then I am forced to question your views...
Instead of throwing things like this at McLaren, you are better off (at least with me anyways) just saying you don't really appreciate his writings very much and leave it at that; or actually quote him and engage with him on substantive issues.
Either way I am fine!
But I do find it interesting how many conservative Christians get their buttons pushed by McLaren!
Like the first video. They blatantly took McLaren out of context (although this is no surprise as they do the same thing with their use of Scripture). I would rather have people engage on content, than personal attack! I have my own issues with McLaren, I would love to discuss yours...
I forgot what I wanted to say!!!!
"whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
I am interested to hear; what do you think the above quote means?
Also, who do you go to to get business advice? ...or design advice? ...or to learn to play music? ...or to fix your car or computer?
How does the answers to the above questions play into people like McLaren or Bell endorsing the work of a non-Christian?
that's fair.
"You know what, the thing that breaks my heart is that there's no way I can answer it without hurting someone on either side." -Brian McLaren.
As far as your question.. For business I get advice from Julie's father who is a great man of God.. I also enjoy Proverbs.
For design, I converse with my good friend and faithful man of God Justin Hall...
I've never taken lessons in music really.... But if you're looking for an origin, ask Sean McMasters.
Fixing my computer... simple.. I can do that on my own.. Or I talk with Patrick Hardy or Jeremy Coverdale, Benji Edwardson all men of God and are really knowledgeable in Mac Computers..
As for my car... I do a lot on my own.. But my uncle helps with the hard stuff.. He believes in God too.
Nice try though...
Further more..
On Ken Wilbur, scripture clearly tells us how to handle such things.
1Cor 6:14-18
I can keep going...
Consider Campolo's statement which is very disturbing: "I’m not so sure that when this life is over that all possibilities for salvation are over."
these kinds of statements shriek of red flags..
You already uphold McLaren to high regards..I'm not going to compete with you there.
I'm constructing my thoughts, I'll blog about my findings and concerns..
It blows my mind the advantage the enemy has, he is able to get so close to the truth, that we fall right into his traps and distractions from the truth..
Even the demons knew who Jesus was...
Philippians 4:8
I love that verse... especially just after it Philippians 4:9
Clearly men like McLaren and Bell miss out on the living word of God.. and occupy their minds with doubts and conversations.....
I think I'll hang close to Paul's words on this one so far..